"That's what we do..."
There is one core dialogue that took place in our kitchen between Josh, the psychiatrist and myself that stays...does not go away, does not lose it's power. By then it was already too late. If we had wanted to avoid Josh's suicide attempt, we had already missed the crossroads and taken the wrong direction.
Nothing done by the Home Visit team helped Josh or us.
I believe their treatment was instrumental in what happened later.
Here is the dialogue.
Nothing done by the Home Visit team helped Josh or us.
I believe their treatment was instrumental in what happened later.
Here is the dialogue.
The psychiatrist is Dr Cho.
The hard part for me is, this stuff is radioactive, I can't think straight when I re-read or go anywhere close to it. The recordings all sit in a folder waiting for the time when it can be used in some way.
The question I can't answer is, was the doctor able to see the future? Was he right to believe that unless Josh took something to increase his serotonin he would become increasingly frantic?
Ultimately deciding to force yourself away from the compelling panic dialogue is a choice that cannot be made for you, but the way other people treat you can make the difference between being able to save yourself, or not. The Home Visit episode was a text book example of how to dis-empower people who are already in shock by focusing to the exclusion of all else, on medication, whilst the Early Intervention team have given practical help.
So where are we now? Josh is working for sandwiches and good will at M+S for a month, hoping that there may be a paid job at the end of it. Eight people were sent via The Princes Trust to M+S. four were offered a role - the role is to save M+S.
There is a lot of unpaid employment in Britain, at first I only knew about my side of it, that the counsellor you see at your GP's will probably be a level 5 student gaining her 100 hours, He or she is not paid, indeed has paid or increased her dept to be on the course.
I'm wondering now who else is un-paid?
Back to the point though, "That's what we do" said the doctor. 'We' section people for not complying with the advice of their health professional...because a person would be mad not to do what their doctor says...
In truth, the madness is to tell the truth when telling the truth wont help. And when you are talking to someone who likes to have power, talking to them as an equal wont do any good at all...
Dr: How are you doing
Josh: er OK
Dr: OK and you stopped taking medication again
Josh: I restarted it again on Friday again
Dr: right so how many did you stop there
Josh: erm 2
Dr: 2 days
Josh: yeah
Dr: do you want staff to come every morning to supervise taking the medication?
J no...
Dr: why not?
Dr: I 'd rather not
Dr: I'd rather not - what's the reason you'd rather not? You are going to take it anyway whether the staff here or not. Staff come and encourage you. You stop taking for a few couple of days and they give you support to get into the routine to take your medication every day staff come and tell you and encourage you every morning yeah?
Josh: I'd just prefer not
Dr: well you said you were going to take it so what's the difference? Staff coming in to see you taking your medication
Me I want to say, pressurizing him doesn't help.
Dr: but you have got to understand that...
Me: I do understand...
Dr: that's five weeks. Josh, I've got to tell you, so this is your last chance I don't want to but I have no choice but to put you on a section 2 taken into hospital under a section 2
Me: <shocked. Almost unable to speak>and I also need you to know that I am unwilling to give my consent to that
Dr: you are willing
Me: <emphatic!> Unwilling
Dr: unwilling parents cannot deter section 2
Me: no, but I can tell you that I am unwilling
Dr: I know I know but
Me: and here is the letter that says I'm unwilling please put that in your notes
Dr: yes thank you but you can take it up with the hospital manager although I say section 2 hospital recommendation there has to be three people; social worker and another doctor they will come and assess you. They may not agree with me, you may not be dettainable but if they agree you will be handed over to the hospital
Me: now you are doing threat again
Dr: not threatening him
Me: I need to say it is harm to self or other's isn't it? He's not a harm to us and he is not harming himself
Dr: not only harming self I have to consider the mental health act the more important thing is if the patient has a mental disorder or not, which he has. another factor is whether patients are willing to cooperate and take treatment from the mental health service which you are a bit reluctant so then three major factors you hit two major factors
Me: is that harm to self though, really? Is it really self harming if a person refuses to take medication while he is working on his mental health in other ways. Is that really self harming to refuse to take medication
Dr: well what's going to happen if he doesn't want to take medication he can deteriorate further
Me: that's a possibility. Do you not think that he has improved without medication, I do. I think that he has improved considerably
Dr: he may be but again you know but as I say you know depression
Me: OK but I want it on record that I disagree fundamentally that only taking citalopram in the morning is the one way for him to get better. I think that the change in his environment has been a critical factor and I really want that to be understood that I disagree that he is harming himself
Dr: I'm not saying that he is harming himself
Me: but under the section is that not the red line?
Dr: it's not only the one factor
Me: I will have to re-read the mental health act. As I understand it harm to self or others? It is a serious thing to section somebody so if you think that you can take somebody for not taking their medication then that’s quite a serious infringement isn’t it
Dr: that’s what we do unfortunately.
The question I can't answer is, was the doctor able to see the future? Was he right to believe that unless Josh took something to increase his serotonin he would become increasingly frantic?
Ultimately deciding to force yourself away from the compelling panic dialogue is a choice that cannot be made for you, but the way other people treat you can make the difference between being able to save yourself, or not. The Home Visit episode was a text book example of how to dis-empower people who are already in shock by focusing to the exclusion of all else, on medication, whilst the Early Intervention team have given practical help.
So where are we now? Josh is working for sandwiches and good will at M+S for a month, hoping that there may be a paid job at the end of it. Eight people were sent via The Princes Trust to M+S. four were offered a role - the role is to save M+S.
There is a lot of unpaid employment in Britain, at first I only knew about my side of it, that the counsellor you see at your GP's will probably be a level 5 student gaining her 100 hours, He or she is not paid, indeed has paid or increased her dept to be on the course.
I'm wondering now who else is un-paid?
Back to the point though, "That's what we do" said the doctor. 'We' section people for not complying with the advice of their health professional...because a person would be mad not to do what their doctor says...
In truth, the madness is to tell the truth when telling the truth wont help. And when you are talking to someone who likes to have power, talking to them as an equal wont do any good at all...
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